Episode 4 -
Strategic Leadership: Navigating War
and Diplomacy in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Ukraine

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:30:15

Sam Cook

So welcome, Vadim Ivchenko to a episode here of the Ukraine History Podcast and this is where we at the Borderlands Foundation interview people who are making history like yourself or writing about history in Ukraine. And I'm very excited to have you on here as someone who is part of making history, which is you're a member of the parliament of Ukraine, and I just wanted to welcome you and let you introduce yourself a little bit more and your background for our audience.

00:00:31:23 - 00:01:07:22

Vadim Ivchenko

Thank you so much for inviting me on that. The. I'm the member of the National Security Defense and Intelligence Committee of the Ukrainian Parliament. Before I 12 years worked as a deputy head of the Cultural Commission of of the Parliament and from the till 2014 I never be a guard. So on. I set up a lot of businesses and when I was 28, I was the advisor of Prime Minister.

00:01:08:10 - 00:01:34:16

Vadim Ivchenko

I was the head of the Association of Enterprises and Industries of Kiev Region. That was the head of the Executive Board of the Association on the Small Cities, as well as right now I am the representative of the Farming Association in the Ukrainian Parliament. The older one, and we are two representative of the labor unions of Ukraine in the in the Ukrainian parliament.

00:01:34:16 - 00:01:53:11

Vadim Ivchenko

And the last I did the biggest investments to my village that's a hundred kilometers from Kiev south, that's 76 to €7 million. So we made a huge big solar plant which would.

00:01:54:02 - 00:01:54:21

Sam Cook

Which tells us.

00:01:55:10 - 00:02:12:11

Vadim Ivchenko

It is village. It is near near the deal. It said a village near the village set and and the rights. Now I'm trying to coordinate and to involve American companies, triple A companies to Ukraine.

00:02:13:18 - 00:02:39:00

Sam Cook

So but I wanted to just I'm going to ask anyone who's been in Ukraine to go back to before the war, you were a member of parliament before the war started, and you've been a member of Parliament since 2014, before the war started. What was your feeling about whether the war would happen? What did you say publicly and what did you actually feel?

00:02:39:00 - 00:02:46:02

Sam Cook

And if those two were different, what you said publicly or what you actually thought was going to happen, why? Why why were those different?

00:02:47:01 - 00:03:33:14

Vadim Ivchenko

You're right, I'm twice I selected and to know probably till the last day til 20 felt. I do believe that the big war will start building and will started and that's a was the currency. We have a lot of information we had a lot of information from our American friends, from different sources, from investment funds, from politicians. They they already are saying make you just like and break between different projects from the beginning and all into the 2000, 2020 to 2022.

00:03:33:14 - 00:04:07:11

Vadim Ivchenko

And so, for example, we lost wallet that's the Goldman Sachs signed the memorandum is what I'm not enough on the storages for one 100 million for storage it was 19th of January and since that time since we signed this said okay, we'll wait till the till the end of March and because we have the intel information that's in February, it will be to the world that the big war will started.

00:04:08:02 - 00:04:28:05

Vadim Ivchenko

That's the investment fund. Politicians, all the politicians promised me, took out American Congressman ex-Congressman from the military community, and they promised me to come from in different cases. But they said, okay, we'll wait forever in probably in the middle of March before in the end of March.

00:04:30:06 - 00:05:00:01

Vadim Ivchenko

And that's also a signal about Ukrainian and state power. All of us told everybody, and that's no chance to start the war. And you remember the minister of defense and the government, they wouldn't like to have probably any panic. That's why they told Ukrainians that's for sure. It Russians will or would not invade to Ukraine.

00:05:00:07 - 00:05:01:14

Sam Cook

Did you believe them at the time?

00:05:02:10 - 00:05:37:05

Vadim Ivchenko

Yes, you did. Yes, because I thought it was my subs. State power shouldn't lie there that the people in in and believe me if for example butcher you're paying a lot of other people are knew about the war if the possibility of this big war probably the majority of them because that's like they first tried tried this tried this on their territory.

00:05:37:07 - 00:06:03:09

Vadim Ivchenko

They probably every family will decide what to do in that's what we have and right now this families the part of this families or in the core who was still alive. They they had question to the to this take Paula White and you told us about this. You know, so that's that's a problem. Another case. That's a panic.

00:06:03:23 - 00:06:33:03

Vadim Ivchenko

If, for example, the state power will say, yes, we'll but the war will start some panic in Ukraine by then they'll is and financial panic as well it is some good I'll bet we'll discuss it a little bit later but right now what we have we have and the and every member of parliament should make are all to to assist to to give a hand to the armed forces of Ukraine.

00:06:33:12 - 00:06:44:07

Sam Cook

So the day before the war, you said you didn't believe it was going to happen. Did you go to sleep that night, on the night of the 20/23? How did you think.

00:06:45:03 - 00:07:12:23

Vadim Ivchenko

From 20th said, I actually took all my family and that's my son, my wife, my my parents and parents who are from the my side. I took them in one place to look to. It's outside ski and I took them in the wrong place and they said it's will be easier for me if you will be in one place.

00:07:12:24 - 00:07:46:05

Vadim Ivchenko

That's what I did. And I get out as everybody get up that morning. And when I, when I drove to to the parliament already and BQ was from Kiev to from everybody fleet Kiev, it was a big deal. So I am probably on the one draw towards the center of Kiev. You know, LB would vote for the or for the military.

00:07:46:05 - 00:07:51:02

Vadim Ivchenko

It's like a military time, war martial muscle.

00:07:51:12 - 00:07:59:11

Sam Cook

So the first day of the war that every parliament member of parliament actually come in to the building to vote for martial law. How did that work?

00:08:00:09 - 00:08:30:11

Vadim Ivchenko

It was like, you know, just at 6:00, everybody was announced should be in parliament. Actually, I was just 20 minutes late 20 minutes. I was in parliament, I was 20 minutes late. So I didn't vote. But I was that time because I was just a little bit outside the cave and was not it's very easy to to get the key course it is supposed to.

00:08:30:16 - 00:09:02:14

Vadim Ivchenko

All the cases has started to nobody knows what to do when when you're comes for the loopholes on that's that's a time but all the time March April May and all other time I wasn't if I was in Kiev, I worked in Kiev. And I've told you earlier, that's the some American SEALs like and volunteers. They work in the West.

00:09:02:14 - 00:09:08:20

Vadim Ivchenko

The General Clark, they came to Ukraine to assist and they do need a retired.

00:09:08:22 - 00:09:09:11

Sam Cook

Retired?

00:09:09:15 - 00:09:27:20

Vadim Ivchenko

Yeah, they're retired. But they came to assist and they gave us a straight communication was general. The was the defense committee was the intelligence committee was intelligence of the United States. A straight connects them what we really need that time.

00:09:28:18 - 00:09:52:02

Sam Cook

So so the war started so really the day before the war you had a concern okay this may start. And apparently there was a big briefing with the chief of staff and the leaders of all parties, presidents in Alaska, on the 23rd. So it was was that probably because of that meeting that all the members of the leaders of the party had with President Zelinsky?

00:09:52:12 - 00:09:55:04

Sam Cook

Was that when you started to get worried and think that this meeting.

00:09:55:14 - 00:10:33:03

Vadim Ivchenko

No, no, nobody told us what it was on the meeting. Okay. The only worry was that I need all my family. We'd be on the one place. Okay? I don't know what will be 25, 25, 2027. But it is is it when everybody deserted in one place and to decide what to do together? Come on. That's. That's I wanted to take from from their homes, everybody in one place to to speak, if the war would start for them.

00:10:33:17 - 00:11:00:02

Vadim Ivchenko

But the war started. The big war started. And we were on the one place. And our family, my friend, the world, this place till probably the middle of summer. And I, I walked in key, I think was my son was was with me. And I told you I worked with the when the Americans with the intelligence was and with the national security committees, you know.

00:11:01:13 - 00:11:19:18

Sam Cook

So the war had started. And it's you go into parliament, everyone's voting. So all the members come into parliament to vote. What what was the mood like in New and all the members there on that day? And how long did that session last? And what happened is.

00:11:20:01 - 00:12:06:07

Vadim Ivchenko

The session will slow. The session was probably 20 minutes, you know, and then everybody will gun all over the parliament, the dining room, all the candidates and everybody start to discuss how they can support and assist with school was like talk where we should go with whom? Admit so everybody has studied discuss I probably I was the last the the last doors on the hall or came from the parliament that then they were going to force from old the towards full clock.

00:12:06:12 - 00:12:31:14

Vadim Ivchenko

In the end we discussed in our fraction were discussed with others fractions were discussed and groups of friendship the different countries were discussed was our colleagues. So this was a day I never were so long time when Parliament. That's also where we like brainstorm, brainstorming what to do next. You know.

00:12:32:23 - 00:13:11:01

Sam Cook

Someone told me, I remember we we did a podcast, I was interviewing people during the the first days of the war almost every day on my Facebook channel. And there was a bit of just trying to understand what was going on and telling my friends and family about it. And one of the advisors, Andre, a delegate who does some economic advising to different ministers, he said, you know, in probably one month since the war started, our parliament has done more reforms and, you know, work, productive work, really good work of transforming the state in one month and maybe in the last seven years.

00:13:12:02 - 00:13:26:10

Sam Cook

What did parliament do after the war started legislation wise, organization wise. You know, how to how did parliament change and get involved and how did it start doing its job.

00:13:26:10 - 00:14:13:00

Vadim Ivchenko

After the army? Andrey, do you not correct information for us on March, April, April-May? We stopped a lot of laws. Yeah, we stopped a lot of tax laws. We stopped a lot of by chip and make it narrow to the arm forces. Yeah we that direct give our armed forces a lot of budget and second we stop a lot of cases like when for example when you couldn't pay tax in the last day of, for example, in the one day of the month, nobody can claim your salary like when you have the permission of our gun and this is permission finish.

00:14:13:00 - 00:14:46:10

Vadim Ivchenko

So we make one year it's you. You could have the possibility to prolong this permission. So that's a lot of things we did for the war, like a war time for the businesses and for the armed forces. And of course, from the Middle, probably someone and all this a year, we of course we would did more than we was doing before.

00:14:46:11 - 00:14:46:20

Vadim Ivchenko

Yeah.

00:14:47:10 - 00:15:15:20

Sam Cook

And what would have those reforms been. You know, because I like to say that the war is a is a it's a battle of ideas. It's a battle of stories. It's a battle of societies, countries, cultures. And Ukraine has this idea that you're part of the West and that we want to become part of Europe and NATO and not go down the atomic Percy out of Russia.

00:15:15:20 - 00:15:37:15

Sam Cook

So one of the things that I say in in war is that the strength of the state will determine whether you succeed or not. If Ukraine wins, it's because the state gets better. It gets better collecting money. It gets better at taxing and allocating resources into things that will win the war and make the state revenue base grow.

00:15:38:10 - 00:15:54:14

Sam Cook

It's digitizing the government, making things more efficient, getting rid of corruption. How do you think Ukraine's done on all of those points since the war started and specifically the parliament?

00:15:54:14 - 00:16:26:05

Vadim Ivchenko

It seems to me we we did more than we even could expect and that this for sure the whole the case I am servant that we gave a lot of opportunities for our military forces for the minister of defense. And they you remember a lot of. Yes and I and and all and Charles in tables and chair us.

00:16:26:05 - 00:17:13:01

Vadim Ivchenko

So you remember this all those pictures. Yeah. And this is pictures worse and the minister of defense and those who made the procurement and different pieces for the minister of Defense. Yeah, that's the only thing we give them opportunity and they and they start to make more corruption than worse. And before the war came, this sound good? But of course we tried all the initiatives of the members of Parliament on the initiative, on the government in different areas to adopt it as quick as possible, know this is our obligations for the European Union and this is obligations for partners.

00:17:13:17 - 00:17:54:24

Vadim Ivchenko

We should reform or transform Ukraine to the standards in European and American bond and cross lending. This standards, this is a standards. And we need to be to be like like other countries building gas and all this thinks that's the people on people think thinking people how to say it is difficult to change people's mind to work like the Americans who work on like standards in in states in the in the European.

00:17:54:24 - 00:18:27:08

Vadim Ivchenko

You know that's very difficult and other that's difficult to find the person with experience of experience and who can lead in different areas a lot of cases that's very difficult for right now. People can do a PDF presentation and some. So then there but he cannot work like the analytics because he have no experience to work on the or element.

00:18:27:18 - 00:19:02:18

Vadim Ivchenko

I mean the association something like that. And that's it should be like steps where you can name like the analytics but you should know how to do this production. You know, what's the payment for this production electricity are this what they export, they import one that problem and everything else. So that's all right now that's difficult to find and such a problem for for the for the government or for the for the different state institutions.

00:19:02:22 - 00:19:23:10

Sam Cook

And how do you think the government has has done specifically the parliament on, you know, reforming the country, making it stronger, making it more resilient? What's been done and what are the things that still need to be done are anti-corruption.

00:19:23:15 - 00:19:56:01

Vadim Ivchenko

I mean, I don't know, corruption came on the next level. So it's very yeah. And difficult to find the wealth now in the graph from on the low lateral on the middle level involved, the corruption is on the top. That's it. Because right now who is on the top here pointed the persons on the middle and on the lower level any this on the top and the next.

00:19:56:01 - 00:21:04:14

Vadim Ivchenko

This is a corruption of the system and he saw system like a judicial system. They always on the money he is in their post using the decision that's all of us English. If we couldn't monitor the decision or if we couldn't make the unification of the decision, it will it will insist, hey, this corruption in this institution and this a judicial will exist are saying for example, if we're talking about the procurement different procurement but nobody knows that's that's everybody know that should be like transparent but we have another cases we have cases where and the best price good company and no so this evil and who's suffering from this householders you know this reputation

00:21:05:02 - 00:21:36:24

Vadim Ivchenko

if price possibility and the reputation in the company just beginning during the war gave the millions and billions that's that's not good because tomorrow this company will close and nothing nothing nothing we can find nothing with them. And that's the reputation, because this is a war and exactly if this company have the reputation already, they will keep this reputation filled.

00:21:36:24 - 00:22:28:23

Vadim Ivchenko

And that's what our states also should know. Exactly. So that's corruption, judicial form on this area of course, this is constitutional corp, more transparent admitting decision on than on the different balls it why for example right now the National Bank of Ukraine make the discount of one and a half billion for one and there is a project in and already appointed for will the to the matter in they've already appointed they didn't but a lot of companies signed the letter.

00:22:29:15 - 00:22:55:23

Vadim Ivchenko

We are ready to buy for example for a 100 million more are the company send the letter 200 million more even. Why? Because this is the decision of like independent institutional National Bank of Ukraine. This is their decision. This is decision. They should change their decision. I don't know how they read this decision. What's the background? Who is responsible for giving them the information?

00:22:55:23 - 00:23:05:19

Vadim Ivchenko

That's a problem. And this is like it close circle, because this is a decision of the way there's a lot of board of people.

00:23:05:19 - 00:23:06:06

Sam Cook

Committee.

00:23:06:10 - 00:23:08:17

Vadim Ivchenko

To come in and that's that's what we have.

00:23:08:23 - 00:23:36:12

Sam Cook

Yeah. So shifting over a little bit to the, the military effort you're on the defense, National Defense and Intelligence Committee and before that and you worked in agricultural on the department and committees. Tell me a little bit more about the work of your committee. We we had you when General Petraeus came in for his visit. You brought some members together.

00:23:37:13 - 00:23:56:22

Sam Cook

What is parliament doing to assist the armed forces? And aside from oversight of anti-corruption and helping, what are what are the legislative initiatives you're taking over or roles that the parliamentarians are doing to help win the war? And how what is the role of parliament in this?

00:23:57:03 - 00:24:43:14

Vadim Ivchenko

I could say all of the role of the National Security Committee. We're working 24 hours. We can start the committee any time. So just we need one, 2 hours just to honor our child, just to make plus minus who is who's on lion and all our renovation what really needs right now it's online can we do on the zoo and we admit the decision where we are we're taking the the position and the opinion from minister of defense and armed forces and to if they are for where war to end for you will be if they're from different parties we're voting for.

00:24:43:21 - 00:25:15:00

Vadim Ivchenko

I don't remember. I am from the opposition party, but I don't remember when I vote against. I don't remember such a such film project of law. You know, this is first. The second, for example, our national Security Committee at a lot of people or specialist on different areas I work in the was one area who is working with another somebody was organ was another others was so their out force.

00:25:15:09 - 00:26:19:09

Vadim Ivchenko

So we are trying because in our committee and exist our guys from special anti-terrorism cooperation force aside from the in body units from how a helicopter pilot from armed forces are from analytic center of the media. But the very prominent media and the main analytics of the military are issues that people who is too close with the veterans, the people across from the family of special operational forces, the people who is working with drones, cybersecurity, that's a people all their life and worked on this area and that's why well like the committee and we know all the problems and we can give our opinion the right opinion.

00:26:19:09 - 00:26:37:10

Vadim Ivchenko

And of course, this is a legislation for a to push forward for the for the assistance of the armed forces. Minister of Defense and other units which defend right now Ukraine.

00:26:37:22 - 00:27:01:14

Sam Cook

So you you've pushed through a lot of new legislation related to the Defense Department, Department of Defense. And so you're constantly meeting with the leaders of Ministry of Defense and the Armed Forces and then developing new laws to to update that has how often are you passing laws now? Is it is it a much more rapid?

00:27:01:14 - 00:27:35:00

Vadim Ivchenko

Probably we are right now only on the only committed which laws are Putin on the on the least during the plan recession 100%. Yeah. So you we are ready it was 50 project of laws on the list of the 50 is 15 on the other so the fifth time so we are only one committed all our project of force is going into the major least for plan the recession.

00:27:35:20 - 00:27:40:19

Sam Cook

And plenary areas where they vote on, they vote on trade debate and bar.

00:27:42:17 - 00:27:52:00

Vadim Ivchenko

The majority right now of the military laws was all debates. Yeah, there's a lot of debates. It's just safe a little bit time.

00:27:53:06 - 00:27:57:15

Sam Cook

And why no debates? Is it because everyone just chose the committee?

00:27:58:02 - 00:28:24:00

Vadim Ivchenko

Say, yeah, everybody see that's a good law or debate. So we and how is do we get rid of these bureaucratic procedures just to spend 10 minutes of discussing everybody, understand why we're discussing like this is like a working for the media and the parliament decided not or for me if this law is okay. No discussion this was limbo.

00:28:24:06 - 00:28:24:24

Vadim Ivchenko

Well, well.

00:28:24:24 - 00:28:31:01

Sam Cook

So there's been no laws that have been debated because everyone just trusts the defense committee is doing the right.

00:28:31:01 - 00:28:32:13

Vadim Ivchenko

Word, asking the majority.

00:28:32:14 - 00:28:33:16

Sam Cook

And majority.

00:28:33:16 - 00:28:55:19

Vadim Ivchenko

Of this. Of course, if somebody would like to say, okay, I would like to say this problem I would like to address on this problem. No, no problem at all. Which fraction these this okay to fracture from five or six to will give you or will give you the right to to debate if nobody wants will save 6 minutes.

00:28:55:20 - 00:28:56:09

Vadim Ivchenko

That's okay.

00:28:57:00 - 00:29:14:12

Sam Cook

So people are prioritizing efficiency over debate, but debate is allowed. It's just only I guess people are only asking the debate when they they think it's going to help rather than they just want to hear the sound of their own voice. Right.

00:29:14:12 - 00:29:31:12

Vadim Ivchenko

Sometimes they're working for media. Yeah. Sometimes they're using the video somewhere, I'm sure. Facebook and Instagram and some on the social media. That's that's a problem because they would like to see something. For what? For for social media and social media. Yeah.

00:29:32:10 - 00:29:58:08

Sam Cook

Next thing I wanted to ask you is there's a big debate in America. And first of all, you go travel to America. You work with American House members of Congress. You're very much into building bridges to America for the Ukraine parliament. Why have you taken on that, that role for yourself, and why is that so important to the work that you're doing?

00:29:58:24 - 00:30:35:06

Vadim Ivchenko

I know that's started from 2000 to 16. Again, when everybody tried to spend their vacation somewhere in there in the warm countries. And I spent my vacation in Washington during my education in Washington University here. And from that time, I was introduced to a lot of congressmen. That time imposed from outside was introduced a lot of association to a lot of lobbyists, to a lot of military, ex-military, ex-cons.

00:30:35:06 - 00:31:07:11

Vadim Ivchenko

When I told them as as I told you that I was the advisor of Prime Minister, but I was advising like the chief on the association of of something the process. So I'm always involved investment to Ukraine. And this case gave me the opportunity to see that the the partnership between the United States in an economical level and the Ukraine is too weak.

00:31:07:23 - 00:31:49:09

Vadim Ivchenko

We need to do it more stronger and more close. That's why we start to work with Triple A corporation from different areas, just to encourage them to stop businesses in Ukraine, not to invest. No, to start businesses, to start the assembly, to start them on the factual, to stop something. CUOMO More American businesses, more American America will defend Ukraine, more American businesses, more people will get the jump in.

00:31:49:09 - 00:32:26:13

Vadim Ivchenko

This is investment and employment. More American businesses, more close to nations, you know, Americans and the Ukrainians. That's that's what I have from the bottom of my heart. And the stop this process ten years ago. And right now we have a lot of projects the way our American companies would like to start business in Ukraine. I mean, we had it before the war, which, by the way, I organized the United States Ukraine Biofuels Council.

00:32:26:13 - 00:32:53:13

Vadim Ivchenko

And we found and investment to buy than buy a terminal factory in natural cities. And there was a little commotion we start to in the west to alternative energy in Ukraine. That was before the war. Well, right now, of course, and this is on halt and we are right now are pushing the military technical cooperation between two countries.

00:32:54:18 - 00:33:04:10

Vadim Ivchenko

To my point of view, American made more than all other countries, all other countries.

00:33:04:12 - 00:33:05:00

Sam Cook

Supporting supporting.

00:33:05:06 - 00:33:55:17

Vadim Ivchenko

America, United, all the Western world for supporting Ukraine. That's why American America disaster related states to have, for example, the standards, weapons standards, equipment and different representative of different companies and all the lines of the products that was produced by the United States companies, aircrafts, helicopters, Marines, small weapons, medical weapons like machine guns are on the way it and some so it can be discarded armored vehicles come to discuss the small weapons because it can be, you know, different unification.

00:33:56:02 - 00:34:47:19

Vadim Ivchenko

But if we're talking about the aircrafts that should be at city, we're talking about helicopters, it should be attack helicopters. The best we just saw in the former Marine Corps UPS in the United States. This is now a Zulu viper. This is some random thing. If we're talking, for example, the the ammunition TNT. And so that's the joint venture was there was being in the United States company if we're talking about the super innovative drones, it shouldn't be Julian domains so that's if we're talking about different software, we should have a good connection with Silicon Valley on this.

00:34:47:19 - 00:35:18:01

Vadim Ivchenko

So that's my dream. That's I'm working and that's I think we'll have success in different projects. And of course, the prominent people of the United States that deserve to how to see, to name like four star generals, three star general or general that's served in Iraq, Afghanistan and knows how to deal with this. And they should be on the advisory boards.

00:35:18:01 - 00:35:49:01

Vadim Ivchenko

Yeah. For example, Ukraine, if they're making the transition from MiG 29 to F-16, it should be the advisory board from four star general and pilot F-16 engineer from Lockheed Martin. Yeah, deputy minister who made the transition from Mr. denying the F-16 and this should sit in the Ukraine and advise Ukraine minister of defense right from the next table of what to do.

00:35:49:01 - 00:35:55:14

Vadim Ivchenko

It will be more quicker. We will come all this process of harmonization until position.

00:35:56:10 - 00:36:19:21

Sam Cook

And but the thing that I've appreciated the most is just getting to know you this time. And Ukraine is in a one year dedication to your country, you know, staying, you know, going to parliament when everyone's driving away from the city. I think the whole government really there were some exceptions. I'm sure some people didn't do great things, but the whole government really united.

00:36:20:10 - 00:36:47:10

Sam Cook

You know, you're not from the president's party, but you unite with people of all different parties and to help. And it's really been inspiring to see that. And then also your belief and I think it's strongly held the long held belief and belief that the United States and Ukraine partnership is is essential to Ukraine's security now that survival in the past is security now and obviously it's future.

00:36:47:22 - 00:37:09:24

Sam Cook

So thank you for giving the listeners here to the Great History Podcast a sense of what it was, what it's been like to be in the Parliament. But I think the key work you guys are doing, helping the President's administration is really important and looking forward to seeing you have a lot more success deepening our cooperation and partnership between the United States and Ukraine.

00:37:09:24 - 00:37:38:14

Vadim Ivchenko

Since and and for the last two, I would say that's very important to to transfer these messages to those who in the wall of interest is supportive of Ukraine and know Americans. Pickles from not from on the United States Canada and Ireland. They should know exactly what is going on there. And you're doing a tremendous job. Thank you, my son.

00:37:38:14 - 00:37:39:06

Sam Cook

Thank you very much.

00:37:39:06 - 00:37:39:20

Vadim Ivchenko

Many thanks.